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	<title>Comments on: Google and language evolution</title>
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	<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/</link>
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		<title>By: Rory Haynes</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 06:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-115</guid>
		<description>I think it is important to distinguish between the analysis of frequency of language usage and the analysis of language usage itself. Google will tell you how commonly a phrase or combination of words is used, but it wont distinguish between different usages of the same set of words, nor will it tell you anything about how the development of the contextual meaning of the words, at least not without the individual analysis of articles themselves. In order to analyse the evolution of language, it is vital to understand how the usage of language is changing, not just how the frequency of usage is changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is important to distinguish between the analysis of frequency of language usage and the analysis of language usage itself. Google will tell you how commonly a phrase or combination of words is used, but it wont distinguish between different usages of the same set of words, nor will it tell you anything about how the development of the contextual meaning of the words, at least not without the individual analysis of articles themselves. In order to analyse the evolution of language, it is vital to understand how the usage of language is changing, not just how the frequency of usage is changing.</p>
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		<title>By: William Tell</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>William Tell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-114</guid>
		<description>In Iceland we try to make up new words for everything, but if the new word is no better than the &quot;original&quot; then it does not &quot;stick&quot;, and the original word is used (albeit adapted to Icelandic pronounciation, and grammar rules).

It is a lot of fun trying to come up with new words - and it is not some old beurocrats that make up the words - everyone has a voice.  Throw your idea into the mix, and if it sticks, then we have a new word.

Example of words that &quot;stuck&quot;:
Tölva (Computer)
Þota (Jet)
Sími (Telephone)

Example of words that did not &quot;stick&quot;:
Video (Myndband - video just sounds better)
- Can´t think of any others, must be a testament of our ability to make up new words );</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Iceland we try to make up new words for everything, but if the new word is no better than the &#8220;original&#8221; then it does not &#8220;stick&#8221;, and the original word is used (albeit adapted to Icelandic pronounciation, and grammar rules).</p>
<p>It is a lot of fun trying to come up with new words &#8211; and it is not some old beurocrats that make up the words &#8211; everyone has a voice.  Throw your idea into the mix, and if it sticks, then we have a new word.</p>
<p>Example of words that &#8220;stuck&#8221;:<br />
Tölva (Computer)<br />
Þota (Jet)<br />
Sími (Telephone)</p>
<p>Example of words that did not &#8220;stick&#8221;:<br />
Video (Myndband &#8211; video just sounds better)<br />
- Can´t think of any others, must be a testament of our ability to make up new words );</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Yes, totally. I wasn&#039;t suggesting that observable results suggested that any of the regulators were wasting their time. But rather that their idealistic mission was going to become increasingly futile and that maybe it was time to collectively question the ethics of language planning, as much of the world has with regard to eugenics or communism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, totally. I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that observable results suggested that any of the regulators were wasting their time. But rather that their idealistic mission was going to become increasingly futile and that maybe it was time to collectively question the ethics of language planning, as much of the world has with regard to eugenics or communism.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-108</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m struck that the forces resisting change are as much a part of the evolution as the forces of change themselves, though, aren&#039;t they?  While I have long chuckled at L’Académie française, I imagine it has, in fact, influenced the course of the development of French.  I don&#039;t quite see how that is less legitimate than other sources of change, as the source - the people - is ultimately the same.  However stringent, people thinking about the development of languages is not a bad thing, along the lines of the old saw that &quot;change is inevitable, progress is optional.&quot;  I am not supporting any particular regulatory group, rather pointing out their formation and activities are part of the larger picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m struck that the forces resisting change are as much a part of the evolution as the forces of change themselves, though, aren&#8217;t they?  While I have long chuckled at L’Académie française, I imagine it has, in fact, influenced the course of the development of French.  I don&#8217;t quite see how that is less legitimate than other sources of change, as the source &#8211; the people &#8211; is ultimately the same.  However stringent, people thinking about the development of languages is not a bad thing, along the lines of the old saw that &#8220;change is inevitable, progress is optional.&#8221;  I am not supporting any particular regulatory group, rather pointing out their formation and activities are part of the larger picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Barker</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 11:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-107</guid>
		<description>It was good to see a mention of Esperanto.
Another useful site, if you have time is http://www.esperanto.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was good to see a mention of Esperanto.<br />
Another useful site, if you have time is <a href="http://www.esperanto.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.esperanto.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-112</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill, thanks for your thoughts.

You&#039;re correct that the link to the list of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;language regulators&lt;/a&gt; doesn&#039;t indicate a collective severity or approach. I was just highlighting that there *was* such a list of organisations intent on somehow moulding language. I also agree that in most cases even when there is a dictating body, their cause is becoming increasingly futile, as language is a slippery fish to control.

However I think that Esperanto (and other constructed languages) largely fall outside of typical memetic evolution. They are engineered to follow and subjectively improve on patterns observed in the &quot;natural&quot; languages. Because of this, aren&#039;t they left wide open to criticism from their followers? You can&#039;t complain about language features that formed over 1000&#039;s of years, but when you&#039;re trying to design the perfect (or better) language there&#039;s an infinite debate on the best way to go?

I don&#039;t think my comment about the internet fast approaching the sum of human knowledge is &lt;em&gt;too&lt;/em&gt; wild. There has never been such an open and globally accessible medium that has contained so much formal and informal language, or one that has so many projects aiming to make it into the &#039;complete&#039; resource (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.archive.org/about/about.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;example&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;example&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.all-species.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;example&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;example&lt;/a&gt;).

I think at one time we would have approximated that world&#039;s libraries contained the sum of current human knowledge. If you look at the rate of information upload to the internet over the last ten years, then I don&#039;t think it will be too long that we can approximate it to human knowledge.

Of course there will always be holes in the resource, but your comment about local Welsh history sounds like a calling to open a Wikipedia account ;)

Thanks again for adding to the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill, thanks for your thoughts.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re correct that the link to the list of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators" rel="nofollow">language regulators</a> doesn&#8217;t indicate a collective severity or approach. I was just highlighting that there *was* such a list of organisations intent on somehow moulding language. I also agree that in most cases even when there is a dictating body, their cause is becoming increasingly futile, as language is a slippery fish to control.</p>
<p>However I think that Esperanto (and other constructed languages) largely fall outside of typical memetic evolution. They are engineered to follow and subjectively improve on patterns observed in the &#8220;natural&#8221; languages. Because of this, aren&#8217;t they left wide open to criticism from their followers? You can&#8217;t complain about language features that formed over 1000&#8217;s of years, but when you&#8217;re trying to design the perfect (or better) language there&#8217;s an infinite debate on the best way to go?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think my comment about the internet fast approaching the sum of human knowledge is <em>too</em> wild. There has never been such an open and globally accessible medium that has contained so much formal and informal language, or one that has so many projects aiming to make it into the &#8216;complete&#8217; resource (<a href="http://www.archive.org/about/about.php" rel="nofollow">example</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About" rel="nofollow">example</a>, <a href="http://www.all-species.org/" rel="nofollow">example</a>, <a href="http://books.google.com/" rel="nofollow">example</a>).</p>
<p>I think at one time we would have approximated that world&#8217;s libraries contained the sum of current human knowledge. If you look at the rate of information upload to the internet over the last ten years, then I don&#8217;t think it will be too long that we can approximate it to human knowledge.</p>
<p>Of course there will always be holes in the resource, but your comment about local Welsh history sounds like a calling to open a Wikipedia account ;)</p>
<p>Thanks again for adding to the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Chapman</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Chapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-111</guid>
		<description>Hello from a Welsh-speaking Englisman! I also speak Esperanto. I think the Wikipedia site you provided a link to simplifies the situation with regard to Esperanto. Its initiator Dr Zamenhof handed over its creation to the wider public, and consciously withdrew from commenting on how the language develops. In any case, he died in 1917, but Esperanto lives on. There is an Akademio de Esperanto, but the language&#039;s speaker population goes its own sweet way, largely ignoring the deliberations of that body.

By the way, I think that your comment, &quot;The internet is fast approaching a tipping point where it will contain almost all human knowledge, past and present, in textual form and from a multitude of different authors and viewpoints&quot; is somewhat exaggerated. Whole acres of things of interest to me, such as local history in my part of Wales are not available on the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello from a Welsh-speaking Englisman! I also speak Esperanto. I think the Wikipedia site you provided a link to simplifies the situation with regard to Esperanto. Its initiator Dr Zamenhof handed over its creation to the wider public, and consciously withdrew from commenting on how the language develops. In any case, he died in 1917, but Esperanto lives on. There is an Akademio de Esperanto, but the language&#8217;s speaker population goes its own sweet way, largely ignoring the deliberations of that body.</p>
<p>By the way, I think that your comment, &#8220;The internet is fast approaching a tipping point where it will contain almost all human knowledge, past and present, in textual form and from a multitude of different authors and viewpoints&#8221; is somewhat exaggerated. Whole acres of things of interest to me, such as local history in my part of Wales are not available on the web.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 10:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Interesting. So when did the modern bilingual laws come info force in Wales?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. So when did the modern bilingual laws come info force in Wales?</p>
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		<title>By: sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2008/05/12/google-and-language-evolution/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 08:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=102#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Hehehe, trust the little Welsh lady to wade on in to a language debate ;) ...

The &#039;Welsh Not&#039; is a contentious aspect of Welsh culture - in fact, it&#039;s rather a disputed aspect as it seems increasingly evident that it was never used. The Welsh language was deemed not to be the language of the state by the 1536 Act of Union, and was replaced with English.

Welsh continued to be spoken etc, (it was the language of the Church in Wales) and indeed the first schools in Wales used the Welsh language. The 1847 (i think) Inquiry of the State of Education in Wales - The Blue Books - deemed that it was the Welsh language and the non-conformist Chapel movement that had cased the Welsh people to be lascivious, immoral, simple and a cause of social inrest. As such, Welsh language education was stopped, and many of the people were encouraged to see the language as an obstacle - the only way to improve themselves eductaionally and socially was to abandon it, and &#039;buy-in&#039; to the Empire, as English woul improve even the lowliest of lives. The report rally created a divide in the nation; people argue that immigration to the Coal Field caused the language to decline, but this just isn&#039;t true when you look at the census data. The langaueg declined in those area a good few years after the surge (and the majority of those moving into the areas learned Welsh as it was the language of the mines). Welsh was just seen as a problem, but this opinion was arrived at due to manipulation by Westminster....

(end of sermon....)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hehehe, trust the little Welsh lady to wade on in to a language debate ;) &#8230;</p>
<p>The &#8216;Welsh Not&#8217; is a contentious aspect of Welsh culture &#8211; in fact, it&#8217;s rather a disputed aspect as it seems increasingly evident that it was never used. The Welsh language was deemed not to be the language of the state by the 1536 Act of Union, and was replaced with English.</p>
<p>Welsh continued to be spoken etc, (it was the language of the Church in Wales) and indeed the first schools in Wales used the Welsh language. The 1847 (i think) Inquiry of the State of Education in Wales &#8211; The Blue Books &#8211; deemed that it was the Welsh language and the non-conformist Chapel movement that had cased the Welsh people to be lascivious, immoral, simple and a cause of social inrest. As such, Welsh language education was stopped, and many of the people were encouraged to see the language as an obstacle &#8211; the only way to improve themselves eductaionally and socially was to abandon it, and &#8216;buy-in&#8217; to the Empire, as English woul improve even the lowliest of lives. The report rally created a divide in the nation; people argue that immigration to the Coal Field caused the language to decline, but this just isn&#8217;t true when you look at the census data. The langaueg declined in those area a good few years after the surge (and the majority of those moving into the areas learned Welsh as it was the language of the mines). Welsh was just seen as a problem, but this opinion was arrived at due to manipulation by Westminster&#8230;.</p>
<p>(end of sermon&#8230;.)</p>
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