Comments on: The problems with direct democracy http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/ Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:55:31 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Sean http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-484 Sean Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:38:25 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-484 Interesting post. I heard about this a while back but nothing from in inside perspective. Good reading the discussion in the comments. Interesting post. I heard about this a while back but nothing from in inside perspective. Good reading the discussion in the comments.

]]> By: Arthur Probsthain http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-473 Arthur Probsthain Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:20:09 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-473 Dear Sirs, On the same ballot, one was able to vote if Switzerland should completely divest itself of its weapons industry, ie to forbid by constitutional amendment the export (and, by inference, the manufacture) of swiss weapons systems (oerlikon, sig sauer etc) to other countries. I find it amazingly wonderful that a people should be allowed to vote on such issues. Dear Sirs,
On the same ballot, one was able to vote if Switzerland should completely divest itself of its weapons industry, ie to forbid by constitutional amendment the export (and, by inference, the manufacture) of swiss weapons systems (oerlikon, sig sauer etc) to other countries. I find it amazingly wonderful that a people should be allowed to vote on such issues.

]]> By: Russell Quinn http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-470 Russell Quinn Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:13:22 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-470 Aha, OK, I guess that's partly it. While I don't think it makes sense comparing how easy it is to hijack a population's opinion vs politicians being prone to corruption (they're just two ways that things can go wrong), my view is that direct democracy is susceptible to the former. Secondly I believe that over controversial, emotional issues, strong marketing *can* easily sway over enough of a population to get something passed. When powerful lobbyists apply their pressure, money and propaganda than a nation is of course as susceptible as it is to MacDonald's adverts or cheap credit. I would propose a good starting point is tighter control of advertising around political referendums, such that awareness that the referendum is happening is fine, but they must be politically neutral. In general political parties do a good job of offering differing views, which people may then choose to agree or disagree with, but it's always easier to promote a radical view than it is to defend it. Aha, OK, I guess that’s partly it. While I don’t think it makes sense comparing how easy it is to hijack a population’s opinion vs politicians being prone to corruption (they’re just two ways that things can go wrong), my view is that direct democracy is susceptible to the former.

Secondly I believe that over controversial, emotional issues, strong marketing *can* easily sway over enough of a population to get something passed. When powerful lobbyists apply their pressure, money and propaganda than a nation is of course as susceptible as it is to MacDonald’s adverts or cheap credit.

I would propose a good starting point is tighter control of advertising around political referendums, such that awareness that the referendum is happening is fine, but they must be politically neutral. In general political parties do a good job of offering differing views, which people may then choose to agree or disagree with, but it’s always easier to promote a radical view than it is to defend it.

]]> By: Beat Leiser http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-469 Beat Leiser Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:28:29 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-469 Russell, I am curious what improvements you have in mind. Tell'em, I'll be reading. There are e.g. voices, demanding a commitee or something similar who decides on what subjects the people are allowed to vote on. If you believe that the mass of the people is easyier "to hijack" than politicians are prone to corruption, then this makes sense. I believe the opposite. Russell, I am curious what improvements you have in mind.
Tell’em, I’ll be reading.

There are e.g. voices, demanding a commitee or something similar who decides on what subjects the people are allowed to vote on.
If you believe that the mass of the people is easyier “to hijack” than politicians are prone to corruption, then this makes sense. I believe the opposite.

]]> By: Russell Quinn http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-468 Russell Quinn Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:09:05 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-468 Beat, It was never about ranking systems or saying that the Swiss one was terrible—it clearly isn't—but rather that it's hard to figure out ways to strengthen it when there are attitudes such as yours. Being an "almost perfect" system isn't a reason not to have an open discussion about why abhorrent decisions such as the minaret one made it through. The way many Swiss cling to it without questioning how it can be improved is what I'm faced with every time I try and bring it up. Beat, It was never about ranking systems or saying that the Swiss one was terrible—it clearly isn’t—but rather that it’s hard to figure out ways to strengthen it when there are attitudes such as yours. Being an “almost perfect” system isn’t a reason not to have an open discussion about why abhorrent decisions such as the minaret one made it through. The way many Swiss cling to it without questioning how it can be improved is what I’m faced with every time I try and bring it up.

]]> By: Beat Leiser http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-467 Beat Leiser Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:00:08 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-467 Dear Anibal Thanks for contradicting yourself. See, that's exactly the point. There is no perfect system, but direct democracy comes quite close. Best regards, Beat Dear Anibal

Thanks for contradicting yourself. See, that’s exactly the point. There is no perfect system, but direct democracy comes quite close.

Best regards,

Beat

]]> By: Anibal http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-466 Anibal Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:28:56 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-466 Totally agree with Russel. Is this one of those cases that "everybody" voted against but then suddenly it won? (irony here to say that most of the people that voted in favour won't stand out publicly for their vote). 47% of non-voters is outrageous on such a law. If there is such a law being voted either: 1) these non-voters should make the referendum non-valid since constitutional changes should be made around the voice of the majority (not around the voice of the silent) 2) or instead, everybody should vote (with whatever measure they can use to democratically assure that). Constitution in your parliament is changed with large majorities right? Why shit it to the voice of the people, if the voice of the people wont decide in majority? Disclaimer: I do think that allowing normal people to trigger referendums is awesome, and wish my country had that. Totally agree with Russel.

Is this one of those cases that “everybody” voted against but then suddenly it won? (irony here to say that most of the people that voted in favour won’t stand out publicly for their vote).

47% of non-voters is outrageous on such a law. If there is such a law being voted either:
1) these non-voters should make the referendum non-valid since constitutional changes should be made around the voice of the majority (not around the voice of the silent)
2) or instead, everybody should vote (with whatever measure they can use to democratically assure that).

Constitution in your parliament is changed with large majorities right? Why shit it to the voice of the people, if the voice of the people wont decide in majority?

Disclaimer: I do think that allowing normal people to trigger referendums is awesome, and wish my country had that.

]]> By: Dan http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-428 Dan Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:09:57 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-428 Winston Churchill once said "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Winston Churchill once said “Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”

]]> By: Russell Quinn http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-396 Russell Quinn Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:40:58 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-396 Amazing, thanks Fred. There's nothing better than writing a blog post questioning why the Swiss won't scrutinise their political system in light of the worldwide outrage over the minaret decision, only to receive a reply saying lets all shut our eyes, calm down and not question anything. Onwards! Upwards! Whose human rights can we marginalise next? Amazing, thanks Fred. There’s nothing better than writing a blog post questioning why the Swiss won’t scrutinise their political system in light of the worldwide outrage over the minaret decision, only to receive a reply saying lets all shut our eyes, calm down and not question anything. Onwards! Upwards! Whose human rights can we marginalise next?

]]> By: Fred http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-problems-with-direct-democracy/#comment-345 Fred Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:28:09 +0000 http://www.russellquinn.com/blog/?p=244#comment-345 As a Swiss who voted against said initiative, I'm nonetheless shocked about the negative intl. reaction to the results, that even question the superiority of direct democracy compared to any other form of political system. Let's all cool down a bit and analyze things in half a year again. I bet people will be much more reasonable than now. Bregards Fred As a Swiss who voted against said initiative, I’m nonetheless shocked about the negative intl. reaction to the results, that even question the superiority of direct democracy compared to any other form of political system. Let’s all cool down a bit and analyze things in half a year again. I bet people will be much more reasonable than now. Bregards Fred

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